Is it indeed the case that in the WCC Tourney’s Las Vegas Era, only SMC and GU have ever won the finals, and only SMC, GU and BYU have ever been to the finals?
I think so… it is getting pretty old.
1 Like
Yes: West Coast Conference men's basketball tournament - Wikipedia
The last team other than the three you mentioned to make it to the finals (and win, by the way against Gonzaga) was USD in 2008. This also happened to be the last year that the tournament was hosted on a rotating basis among WCC members (which in 2008 gave USD a home court advantage) before moving permanently to the Orleans.
The year before, in 2007 when the Pilots hosted the tourney, we made it to the finals vs. Gonzaga and lost. I believe that was Coach Davey’s last game. Kerry Keating was hired a few weeks later.
2 Likes
The format has a lot to do with that. I actually think the conference is at the point where the could do way with the protected format.
Talking with Renee this weekend Gonzaga & St. Mary’s are adamant about keeping the double bye to the semis. And since those two schools have the power with the WCC the format will likely remain. I think you reward the top two seeds with byes to the quarterfinals but to the semis is ridiculous
Btw just left the Orleans Arena and Bulldog tears are rejuvenating for my soul. Nothing like watching them file out before the game was over. Didn’t even stick around to salute their team.
1 Like
The point of the bye to the semi’s for the top 2 seeds was to “protect the seeds” for the NCAA’s so that the high seeds didn’t get upset and the league would lose a bid. I think its safe to say we are well past those days. If we didn’t have this format, there would have no doubt been some years where GU would have been upset.
1 Like
I’m fine with the format as-is. It rewards teams for being exceptional during conference play. If we want to see SMC and GU play on Saturday, then the rest of the WCC teams need to knock them out of 1st or 2nd place.
And, we need to stop losing games to bad teams.
5 Likes
Gonzaga somehow looked more hapless than Santa Clara for much of the game. At least they revealed that SMC really is that good this year. Takes the sting out of losing a little.
As to the bye to the semis, SMC is a paper tiger in negotiation. The Zags might have other suitors if they really wanted to pull up and run. But the Mountain West ain’t taking Saint Marys, and the Big 12 wouldn’t even pick up the phone. SMC might act tough, but it’s a hand wave and a facade. I think it might be time to force their hand on some of these demands, including on the triple bye.
3 Likes
Saint Mary’s isn’t controlling the triple bye, it’s all Gonzaga.
1 Like
Considering Gonzaga has one foot out the door - WHY is the WCC catering to them?
I don’t think they do. I think they would like to, but there is no real good option for them.
1 Like
What other major conference seeds anyone to the semi’s? B12, SEC, ACC, and B10 send top seeds (1-4, but I could be mistaken) to the quarters.
From my perspective, the Zags can manipulate the WCC Tournament to give themselves a plum path to the auto or they can demand a greater share of tournament shares earned, but they can’t do both. That’s them getting to eat their cake and choking the rest of the conference under the guise of “rewarding the best team.” The WCC is better off now if the 3rd seeded team gets the autobid. That’s not true of the SoCon, but the WCC is better than a low major conference.
I think renegotiating the tournament shares would be an near-automatic death knell for Gonzaga’s WCC membership. But I think with a little assist from WSU and OSU, the other members could get a reasonable tournament structure. The Zags would whine but wouldn’t buck. SMC might whine too, but they aren’t a player and should be patted on the head with “bless your heart” condescension.
To be clear, I’m not laboring under the delusion that anyone was getting the autobid this year other than SMC or maybe Gonzaga. They tore through the conference and, aside from a slip up against SCU, were pretty invulnerable. But in a year like 2022 where USF was a tournament caliber team but on the bubble and SCU was good enough to win a tournament game if they could get there via the autobid, the tournament structure is a huge disservice to the conference overall. And those years are going to be more frequent with the greater investment.
Next year could be such a year with all of SMC, Gonzaga, USF, SCU, and USD possibly returning most of their core rotation. If WSU can keep Kyle Smith in place, there’s another contender. I don’t expect Pepperdine or Pacific to compete, but weird things can happen when you rebuild from scratch with the transfer portal. So the WCC could have 6 top-100 teams next year, which would make it much more important that the #4 team has a path to the NCAA Tournament than that the #1 team (almost certainly an at-large anyways) is protected.
5 Likes
Agree with your comments here. Obviously, some heavy discussions to be had leading up the 18th. I also believe with the same core returning, SCU is def a contender for March Madness next season. This is one of those times you wish the heavens would open up and instruction is provided - lol.
8 Likes
I certainly hope we can keep our guys together, and would love to see Cam back as a Bronco! By the way, I was in Las Vegas for the tournament and I am happy to report there were a lot more Bronco fans there than in past years. It feels like we are headed in the right direction. Hopefully, we can crack the top two in the near future…
9 Likes
The Broncos put up some good wins this season but were killed by consistency. The Gonzaga win is the best win for SCU in the past three seasons (slightly better analytically than beating SMC in Leavey in 2022 but significantly better for the psyche). And credit where due, this year’s Broncos were 6-9 in the first two quadrants. The Podz team was 4-6 (with a single Q1 win). The Jalen/Vrankic/Keshawn team was a mere 3-8. So the wins are there to get the the Tournament if they keep scheduling well.
It’s the other side of the ledger that is holding SCU back. The 21-22 Broncos didn’t lose a single Q4 game. The next year, SCU only lost one Q4 match. This year, they took 3 such losses–each of which was worse than any loss from the prior two seasons. A team can sneak into the Tourney with a single Q4 loss if they’ve done well at the top, but three losses is a non-starter.
Point being, this team doesn’t have to get much more talented to get to the NCAA Tournament. But they need to get much more consistent. I hope that continuity can get them there.
14 Likes
Mostly agree w/ Patty.
Except you need to include Q 3 losses in the equation. They’re considered bad losses by tourney committees and when you take a closer look at who those teams are, they are less than spectacular. And two Quad 1 wins in 2023/24 vs. one Quad 1 win 2022/23 isn’t substantively different.
End of the day, I don’t wee how anyone can legitimately argue that this season was better or a step forward from the previous two seasons. The records, rankings (NET and Torvik), and fact we aren’t likely to get an NIT birth all tell the same story. And yet, Sendek mentions ‘progress’ multiple times in his interview above. When he says that repeatedly and with his abundant optimism (at least outwardly) it makes me think he is speaking to prospective recruits and even more so to Renee, the monied donors who pay his salary and any others who will decide his fate, contract extension, etc…trying to convince them everything is awesome and future is bright.
Re: the talent on the roster, the future, etc. While there is talent, there are weaknesses and holes in this squad that won’t necessarily be cured simply by another year playing together.
One of our biggest problems this season IMO is that we had/have a lot of incomplete players, some who are talented offensively but don’t defend well, in some cases don’t rebound well and aren’t strong, physical or aggressive and said players get exposed when we play good and physical defensive teams like SMC. Applies to what most would consider our three most talented returning players: Bal, Tilly and O’Neil. All three need to hit the weight room hard and somehow develop some physical toughness, ability to play with and through contact and commit to defending and rebounding better.
Our best returning rebounders (Tongue and Ensminger) and defenders (Bryan, Tongue, Ensminger) are behind Bal, Tilly and O’Neil in the rotation and PT as Sendek seems to weight offensive proficiency over defense, rebounding and toughness.
And the coaches have to resolve the fact that the most talented offensive player, Bal, can both lead and carry you with his shot making but who also causes the overall team O to bog down with too much 1on1 play with limited player and ball movement. When Bal was out a few games, we saw pretty clearly that the overall offense was more cohesive with better team play and better player and ball movement.
So can the squad somehow improve both offensively and defensively to get to better overall outcomes when we have so many incomplete players who are good to very good in certain aspects of the game but deficient in others??? That will be the challenge for the coaching staff…to address and improve in the areas of weakness for individual players with the hope that the collective results are better and more consistent.
8 Likes
Yeah, makes me think it would be better overall if he did get drafted…the program’s reputation of getting players in the NBA would continue, ABD we would lose a guy who is the antithesis of team ball. Addition by subtraction.
4 Likes
I think the coaches in the league would faire better and making a team player into him. Dont blame the player - that is where coaching needs to step in and point out less iso and more ball movement. The ball movement was fantastic the games he sat out.
4 Likes
Concur, ‘Femme. It would enhance his draft stock, and the school’s caché as well.
3 Likes